Comments on: Surfers and Dory Boats Clash in PC http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/ Sat, 31 Jul 2010 06:47:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Rob Pace http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-218 Rob Pace Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:29:28 +0000 http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/#comment-218 hi 8xv21e6a7g8v7eqt good luck hi
8xv21e6a7g8v7eqt
good luck

]]> By: Murray Wiley http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-217 Murray Wiley Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:44:36 +0000 http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/#comment-217 hi 8xv21e6a7g8v7eqt good luck hi
8xv21e6a7g8v7eqt
good luck

]]> By: MIke http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-210 MIke Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:14:48 +0000 http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/#comment-210 I also have great essay written by an oregon coast economics major that has quest from papers from the 1920s that dories used small motors so how is that for tradition the were just expensive and not as cost effective as they are now I also have great essay written by an oregon coast economics major that has quest from papers from the 1920s that dories used small motors so how is that for tradition the were just expensive and not as cost effective as they are now

]]> By: Mike http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-209 Mike Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:07:28 +0000 http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/#comment-209 i just want to say that Paul Snodgrass is a Prick. I am a dory man and i can promise you if i ever see your ass down on my fuck beach i am going to kick the shit outta you. How stipid can you be when a section of beach is marked for the boats i dont care if the come in 100 miles an hour that is there spot and that is final. thats like playing in the street kids still do it but the dont belong there. I really hope there is a chance that i can speak to you Paul you fucking ignorangt SOB. my email is MAF_0730@hotmail.com email me any time i just want to say that Paul Snodgrass is a Prick. I am a dory man and i can promise you if i ever see your ass down on my fuck beach i am going to kick the shit outta you. How stipid can you be when a section of beach is marked for the boats i dont care if the come in 100 miles an hour that is there spot and that is final. thats like playing in the street kids still do it but the dont belong there. I really hope there is a chance that i can speak to you Paul you fucking ignorangt SOB. my email is MAF_0730@hotmail.com email me any time

]]> By: john http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-112 john Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:20:35 +0000 http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/#comment-112 Gary,,well said. I for one have talked to other surfers and have tried to convince them of the fact that this section of the beach should be avoided. If you know anything about surfers, they are like any other make up of people, you have some with commonsence, some that have very little, and some who like to pound thier chest. tough guys if you know what i mean. they are the trouble makers you will have to contend with. Such ignorance is indeed indicative of the mentality that I have wittnesed at times in this area. These are mostly younger, inexperinced men who like to surf here due to the smaller waves, so they can look good to the young ladies watching from the pelican pup. If they really had the brass ones they think do, they would swing south and jump on the really good waves that I have almost to myself, but alas, it is what it is. The best thing that can happed here, would be for the coast guard to step up and make a boundary that both side will have to adhere to. In closing. I can make this promise,,you will not see me in the way, and I will still try to talk to the chest pounders. Good luck to all involved. Gary,,well said. I for one have talked to other surfers and have tried to convince them of the fact that this section of the beach should be avoided. If you know anything about surfers, they are like any other make up of people, you have some with commonsence, some that have very little, and some who like to pound thier chest. tough guys if you know what i mean. they are the trouble makers you will have to contend with. Such ignorance is indeed indicative of the mentality that I have wittnesed at times in this area. These are mostly younger, inexperinced men who like to surf here due to the smaller waves, so they can look good to the young ladies watching from the pelican pup. If they really had the brass ones they think do, they would swing south and jump on the really good waves that I have almost to myself, but alas, it is what it is. The best thing that can happed here, would be for the coast guard to step up and make a boundary that both side will have to adhere to. In closing. I can make this promise,,you will not see me in the way, and I will still try to talk to the chest pounders. Good luck to all involved.

]]> By: Gary http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-111 Gary Sun, 17 Aug 2008 20:43:32 +0000 http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/#comment-111 This section of the beach at the Cape Should be kept clear of surfers and swimmers for at least a half mile of the caps. Until the late 60's and early 70's there were nothing but dorys that used this beach for the last hundred years. It is one of the very few places that it is reasonably safe to launch a dory and for all intent and purpose needs to be kept for them to use unrestricted or having to worry about some surfer want to push their dominance attitude onto them. It is just plain and simple courtesy. Also if you had seen the size and number of sharks that shelter in the reach behind haystack rock you would not put your big toe in the water. I have been there many many times over the years and some of them are as large as the dorys that are used there. To push yourself into a traditional boat launch site such as this is not only RUDE, it is just plain ignorant ! This section of the beach at the Cape
Should be kept clear of surfers and swimmers for at least a half mile of the caps.
Until the late 60’s and early 70’s there were nothing but dorys that used this beach for the last hundred years.
It is one of the very few places that it is reasonably safe to launch a dory and for all intent and purpose needs to be kept for them to use unrestricted or having to worry about some surfer want to push their dominance attitude onto them.
It is just plain and simple courtesy.
Also if you had seen the size and number of sharks that shelter in the reach behind haystack rock you would not put your big toe in the water.
I have been there many many times over the years and some of them are as large as the dorys that are used there. To push yourself into a traditional boat launch site such as this is not only RUDE, it is just plain ignorant !

]]> By: john http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-102 john Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:45:53 +0000 http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/#comment-102 This is NOT a river! and to state that weather visability wasnt a factor appears to be way off base,, according to all reports. Ever been the trough, working hard to get back up and have someone cut you off and take your line??? I,ve had collisions with other boarders, and I"m very greatfull they didnt weigh a couple of tons. It still comes down to safety and awareness. And this is the only place that I've surfed where there are motor driven boats makeing regular landings and launchs. the closest place that I've seen like it was down in Mexico. It was cool though, we all knew thats what it was, and stayed clear when they were working. When I go surfing,,I"m kinda glad we dont have lifeguards or others telling me when to surf or not,,I think that would take alot out of the reason I"m there. One has to take responsibilty for thier own actions, and thats the way it is. we choose to be on mountains, jumping out of planes, diving into caves, yep, ya gotta love it. And if you asked Cole, I'd bet he would feel the same way. This is NOT a river! and to state that weather visability wasnt a factor appears to be way off base,, according to all reports. Ever been the trough, working hard to get back up and have someone cut you off and take your line??? I,ve had collisions with other boarders, and I”m very greatfull they didnt weigh a couple of tons. It still comes down to safety and awareness. And this is the only place that I’ve surfed where there are motor driven boats makeing regular landings and launchs. the closest place that I’ve seen like it was down in Mexico. It was cool though, we all knew thats what it was, and stayed clear when they were working. When I go surfing,,I”m kinda glad we dont have lifeguards or others telling me when to surf or not,,I think that would take alot out of the reason I”m there. One has to take responsibilty for thier own actions, and thats the way it is. we choose to be on mountains, jumping out of planes, diving into caves, yep, ya gotta love it. And if you asked Cole, I’d bet he would feel the same way.

]]> By: Local realestae devoloper. http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-87 Local realestae devoloper. Fri, 25 Jul 2008 07:41:18 +0000 http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/#comment-87 I have spent time with many Dorymen and surfers and this is a sad misfortunate catastrophe. I understand both sides of the ocean goers. I am an avid boater and surfer. However i know the Dorymen are angry and don't like their beach approach lanes blocked in any manner. I have never heard any compassion for the surfers when the Dorymen speak of the lane blockage. I have heard the Dorymen refer to the surfers not as people sharing the ocean, but as targets and that they have no right being in that area. That is very disturbing. I believe we all have rights to the ocean. I also believe some Dorymen buzz (drive close) to surfers to get them out of the approach lanes. I pray this was not the case with the young boy. If you can not see where your boat is going you should not be accelerating, you should be chopping throttle. Yes, i understand the need to ride the back of the wave and than accelerate over the top to skim up on to the sand so that the boat can be easily trailered and people can get out safely, with out the boat being rocked by waves against the sand. It is not entirely necessary but does make loading and unloading much easier when you are up on the beach away from the waves. Yes, this means picking your line very careful, having a spotter possibly with binoculars, an air horn and being prepared for evasive maneuvers in case there is something impeding your approach landing. It would also mean possibly circling your approach lane before getting too close to the breaking waves where it is hard to change course. Dorymen appear to be able to avoid people on the beach and objects along the edge of the water, if they can see them(weather permitting). Weather visibility did not seem to be a factor in this accident. If this had happened on a river the driver would have been cited for reckless boating or worse. I don't know what the answer is but driving a boat fast to the beach and not being able to see where you are going is probably asking for another disaster. What happens if another Dorymen stalls his boat coming or going from the beach, or if a person is thrown from another boat? If the Dorymen cannot see it will be another tragic accident just as it would be with anything that is under power and has no visibility or evasive maneuverability. Not being able to see and/or take evasive action from obstacles in the water will only result in another accident. Maybe the only solution is to keep people, and animals out of the water and away from the oceans edge at Pacific City Launch site so the Doryman can continue their tradition somewhat safely. I know in many parts the world boaters beach their boats softly on the beach. Riding the back of the wave all the way inn, then letting the waves hold them up on the sand. Their boats are usually semi-v hull so skimming up on the sand would destroy the boat. Lets remember that swimmers, surfers and objects not under power are at the mercy of currents, winds, and other forces of nature. One ocean one love. I have spent time with many Dorymen and surfers and this is a sad misfortunate catastrophe. I understand both sides of the ocean goers. I am an avid boater and surfer. However i know the Dorymen are angry and don’t like their beach approach lanes blocked in any manner. I have never heard any compassion for the surfers when the Dorymen speak of the lane blockage. I have heard the Dorymen refer to the surfers not as people sharing the ocean, but as targets and that they have no right being in that area. That is very disturbing. I believe we all have rights to the ocean. I also believe some Dorymen buzz (drive close) to surfers to get them out of the approach lanes. I pray this was not the case with the young boy. If you can not see where your boat is going you should not be accelerating, you should be chopping throttle. Yes, i understand the need to ride the back of the wave and than accelerate over the top to skim up on to the sand so that the boat can be easily trailered and people can get out safely, with out the boat being rocked by waves against the sand. It is not entirely necessary but does make loading and unloading much easier when you are up on the beach away from the waves. Yes, this means picking your line very careful, having a spotter possibly with binoculars, an air horn and being prepared for evasive maneuvers in case there is something impeding your approach landing. It would also mean possibly circling your approach lane before getting too close to the breaking waves where it is hard to change course. Dorymen appear to be able to avoid people on the beach and objects along the edge of the water, if they can see them(weather permitting). Weather visibility did not seem to be a factor in this accident. If this had happened on a river the driver would have been cited for reckless boating or worse. I don’t know what the answer is but driving a boat fast to the beach and not being able to see where you are going is probably asking for another disaster. What happens if another Dorymen stalls his boat coming or going from the beach, or if a person is thrown from another boat? If the Dorymen cannot see it will be another tragic accident just as it would be with anything that is under power and has no visibility or evasive maneuverability. Not being able to see and/or take evasive action from obstacles in the water will only result in another accident. Maybe the only solution is to keep people, and animals out of the water and away from the oceans edge at Pacific City Launch site so the Doryman can continue their tradition somewhat safely. I know in many parts the world boaters beach their boats softly on the beach. Riding the back of the wave all the way inn, then letting the waves hold them up on the sand. Their boats are usually semi-v hull so skimming up on the sand would destroy the boat. Lets remember that swimmers, surfers and objects not under power are at the mercy of currents, winds, and other forces of nature. One ocean one love.

]]> By: Paul Snodgrass http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-86 Paul Snodgrass Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:16:01 +0000 http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/#comment-86 John I guess what don't understand is why going faster than the swell so as to jump the waves from the back is necessary, maybe someone can explain this. As far as the local dorymans assn. page please note the dory shown on their home page is a double ended 4 oared row boat. this is the traditional "dory". What I see in PC are just modified fishing boats that have no resemblance to the "dory" - times have changed and so apparently have the dories. perhaps it's time for this "defacto port" to be reviewed by the coast guard. I do hope all can work together to some kind of peaceful resolve, I just feel things can be done safer that day. I know the dorymen watch out for us surfers out there. I have never had a close call and think I surf there a lot (for my age). I don't think the dorymen are bad or hurtful group (I even worked on a couple charter boats out of San Diego when I was 21 for about 1 year as well as my brother is a commercial fisherman in Hawaii) and thru out my years of going to Cape Kiwanda I never had a clue to the friction between the groups (so no I don't hate dorymen) but it sure was apparent after the accident. As I stated I love Cape Kiwanda, it's great local people (including the fisherman) as I did grow up in the ocean .. with boats. I also understand shutting down parts of the beach / ocean for only certain use is really not the best solution (although I think the safest) as this is a "nice summer day" problem and is not the normal 9 months out of the year. Again I just keep wondering why jumping in over the top of the waves when coming in is safer than getting between them. I'm so glad to see Cole recovering so well, and I hope the months to come are not too hard on him and his family. I also feel for the Skipper who I am sure suffers as well. heres hoping for peace and tranquility in the sea. John
I guess what don’t understand is why going faster than the swell so as to jump the waves from the back is necessary, maybe someone can explain this.

As far as the local dorymans assn. page please note the dory shown on their home page is a double ended 4 oared row boat. this is the traditional “dory”. What I see in PC are just modified fishing boats that have no resemblance to the “dory” - times have changed and so apparently have the dories. perhaps it’s time for this “defacto port” to be reviewed by the coast guard.

I do hope all can work together to some kind of peaceful resolve, I just feel things can be done safer that day.

I know the dorymen watch out for us surfers out there. I have never had a close call and think I surf there a lot (for my age). I don’t think the dorymen are bad or hurtful group (I even worked on a couple charter boats out of San Diego when I was 21 for about 1 year as well as my brother is a commercial fisherman in Hawaii) and thru out my years of going to Cape Kiwanda I never had a clue to the friction between the groups (so no I don’t hate dorymen) but it sure was apparent after the accident.
As I stated I love Cape Kiwanda, it’s great local people (including the fisherman) as I did grow up in the ocean .. with boats. I also understand shutting down parts of the beach / ocean for only certain use is really not the best solution (although I think the safest) as this is a “nice summer day” problem and is not the normal 9 months out of the year. Again I just keep wondering why jumping in over the top of the waves when coming in is safer than getting between them.

I’m so glad to see Cole recovering so well, and I hope the months to come are not too hard on him and his family.
I also feel for the Skipper who I am sure suffers as well.

heres hoping for peace and tranquility in the sea.

]]> By: john http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-85 john Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:13:50 +0000 http://surfpioneer.com/blog/surfers-and-dory-boats-clash-in-pc/#comment-85 Paul,,it,s obvious to me by the candor in your message that you hold a great real of resentment towards these doryman. I went to the dorymans asso. website and found out that this area has served as a port for over one and a quarter centurys,,and that very much quantifies it as a tradition. I am not tring to take sides in this issue, but we will all need to work together to resolve this. Safety, and (tranquility), will return to this area if we all can find a common goal, and that should be the education and safety for all parties using this site. And this would include Us Knowing that the Ocean had turned rough,,although this type of water is attractive at that time, a glance at the empty boat trailors on the beach would be a good indicator that the dorys may very well be coming to shore, and common sence would dictate that this area should be given a wide berth untill it was cleared of boat traffic. I have been here when this type of situation has occured and it usaually takes less than an hour for all boats to safely make landings. At that time the water again belongs to us! I spoke to a good friend of mine who was surfing the area at the time, and he stated to me that he wittnesed one dory that had to commit to a hard enough turn to avoid one fellow, that one person in the boat fell overboard and had to hold on to the side of the boat untill it made its landing. this also could have turned out disasterous. Possibly, Paul, since you stated that you live in the area, you could rise above the din and become an educator, and work with the the two local surf shops and the dorymans association to help bring to the forefront the concerns of all involved. I feel that if we dont,,if all we do is raise an accusing finger and point in contempt and distain at each other,then we will all loose. we also have a measure of responsability here and it incumbant on all of us to conduct ourselfs accordingly. Paul,,it,s obvious to me by the candor in your message that you hold a great real of resentment towards these doryman. I went to the dorymans asso. website and found out that this area has served as a port for over one and a quarter centurys,,and that very much quantifies it as a tradition. I am not tring to take sides in this issue, but we will all need to work together to resolve this. Safety, and (tranquility), will return to this area if we all can find a common goal, and that should be the education and safety for all parties using this site. And this would include Us Knowing that the Ocean had turned rough,,although this type of water is attractive at that time, a glance at the empty boat trailors on the beach would be a good indicator that the dorys may very well be coming to shore, and common sence would dictate that this area should be given a wide berth untill it was cleared of boat traffic. I have been here when this type of situation has occured and it usaually takes less than an hour for all boats to safely make landings. At that time the water again belongs to us! I spoke to a good friend of mine who was surfing the area at the time, and he stated to me that he wittnesed one dory that had to commit to a hard enough turn to avoid one fellow, that one person in the boat fell overboard and had to hold on to the side of the boat untill it made its landing. this also could have turned out disasterous. Possibly, Paul, since you stated that you live in the area, you could rise above the din and become an educator, and work with the the two local surf shops and the dorymans association to help bring to the forefront the concerns of all involved. I feel that if we dont,,if all we do is raise an accusing finger and point in contempt and distain at each other,then we will all loose. we also have a measure of responsability here and it incumbant on all of us to conduct ourselfs accordingly.

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